Or Missing, Recovered (Deceased), and Recovered (Alive), if you prefer:
Florida's Casey Anthony in happier times.
Those times being the short happy weeks after her little daughter Caylee had disappeared but before she'd gotten herself incarcerated for suspicion of making the tot go poof.
Casey's mom sounds like she'd like to make someone disappear too:
In transcripts of a 911 call, Caylee's grandmother tells an operator she thought her own daughter's car had been used to transport a body."There's something wrong," Cindy Anthony told the dispatcher.
"I found my daughter's car today, and it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car."
In three 911 calls, she said she wanted to press charges against her daughter Casey, 22, for "grand theft", then in a second call she said she had someone in her home who needed to be arrested in relation to a missing toddler.
Meanwhile, a handsome 15-year-old Alabaman named Blake Stone went missing a few months back, but he turned up again. In a freezer where friends not much older than himself ultimately placed him after they thrill-killed him. One of the friends had been given flyers of the missing boy to distribute. Somehow he never got around to posting them. They were found in his house when police came to arrest him.
Shasta Groene was rescued from the clutches of kidnapping, child-molesting serial killer Joseph Duncan, but he's not done with her yet. She's currently a pawn in a game he's playing with the Feds. The Feds want two things: to put him to death and to keep Shasta Groene off the stand. Duncan only wants only thing: to save his worthless hide. So he got himself appointed as his own attorney for the upcoming penalty phase. That means he'll be cross-examining Shasta, the lone survivor of a killer who wiped out almost her entire family (though this trial pertains specifically to her kidnapping and to the kidnapping and murder of the youngest brother, Dylan). And the videos he made of Shasta and Dylan in captivity? He's asking they be shown in open court. Will the Feds drop her in the meat-grinder or will they drop the DP? Will the judge be able to keep Duncan on a leash tight enough to minimize damage to Shasta but loose enough not to get the penalty overturned on appeal?
Her father has terminal cancer and is just trying to stay alive long enough to get her through this mess.
I do know of one other kid who also had to testify while one of these monsters was representing himself. He was a lone survivor too. A little kidnapped Baltimore boy named Billy Arthes survived Arthur Goode, a molester who went on an abduction and murder spree that cost the life of Jason Verdow, a young boy from the neighborhood across the field from my own, and also that of another boy in Virginia. He testified at both trials, but it was at the Florida trial where the death penalty was being sought, and where Goode was doing the cross-examining. Billy held up and his testimony greatly aided in Goode's miserable life being extinguished in the arms of Ol' Sparky.
Are the Feds counting on Shasta to be as tough as Billy? Perhaps she will be. I'm worried that she's fixing to get another layer of horror troweled on. In this instance, it wouldn't bother me a bit if they withdrew the death penalty and let Idaho or, preferably, California handle it. Idaho is ready to impose a death sentence on him for the Groene family murders they've already convicted him for, and he's due to stand trial next in California for the kidnapping and murder of a Golden State boy.
Finally, via Owen: Florida can now nod knowingly to California: we have our own feral child case to match their Genie.
Posted by floridacracker at August 8, 2008 03:35 AMCongress is so creative at making laws that have nothing to do with anything..Why can't they pass a law regarding overwhelming evidence in relation to
open and shut cases like this..
Oh that's right, we have too many non-slave owners apologizing to non-slaves for slavery.
The ASA in her case should get the biggest, baddest bailiffs he can find to surround her during testimony...He should also be forced to question her through a mask, with leg irons on.
Posted by: csason at August 8, 2008 09:32 AMA person can't be forced to testify, can they? If they've already given statements/depositions whatever it is you give? I know you can be held in contempt if you refuse to testify, under some circumstances, but surely there's at least a couple ways around this.
I think Shasta is old enough now that she should have some input here, as to whether she testifies, whether she does it by CCTV, what she'll answer and what not. I've seen where witnesses are able to set a few ground rules like that.
Whatever she does, it is sure to hurt Duncan's case even more than already is.
@ csason: the United States Constitution, not Congress, gives every criminal defendant the right to defend him or herself when charged with a crime. Congress does not, and should not, have the power to overrule the Constitution and allow people to be convicted just because of overwhelming evidence. Congress certainly should not be allowed to draft laws regarding evidence- evidence is extremely complicated and unless you are a lawyer with experience in the criminal justice system, you should not be able to make laws regarding evidentiary issues.
Allowing the courts to bypass the Constitution if "a case looks really good" puts everyone, innocent or guilty, at risk. District Attorneys lie, police officers DEFINITELY lie, etc. You can't necessarily trust "evidence" at face value.
@ Starla: Yes, a person can be forced to testify. A criminal defendant has the Constitutional right to confront his or her accuser, regardless of the age or gender of that accuser. However, in many states, children in molestation cases are allowed to be "satellite" questioned from another room so that they do not have to face their alleged abusers in person. I don't think that will work well in this case as he is going to be his own attorney (bad, BAD BAD idea).
My basis for these statements is that I am a criminal defense attorney.
Posted by: Nicole at August 8, 2008 11:06 AMCongress can do anything it wants..and anyone who thinks otherwise lives in a different nation than I do..
By overwhelming evidence, I mean..like my brother-in-law who had to arrest a guy that was bashing a kids head in with a hammer when he was caught.
The guy got a trial..
I am an antique human, designed to play 45's in an mp3 world. I believe in the old 'punishment is the best deterant' type of legal system.
I DO NOT subscribe to the notion that we should design our crime and punishment system around the possibility that one juror may not agree, or that
we should absolve the guilt of many in order to protect the possible innocence of a criminal.
Regardless which side of the legal system you fall on, the ones who protest or applaud cap punishment
and/or harsh treatment of perverts, we have some pretty serious issues in our society now, that being child predation and ballistic murder rates.
I don't see how advocating for criminal rights really helps much in light of this.
Last thing..We have turned into a society of
wimps..it wasn't that long ago that stealing a horse got you hung.
Now, any logical parent goes online to see how close the perps are living to their house...and it should not be so...they should all be imprisoned
for life at least after any reasonable conviction of child predation.
By the way, I didn't know Casey Anthony was a member of MS-13...
Posted by: csason at August 8, 2008 04:21 PMOwen, I get what you're saying (about Duncan and the criminal justice system in general) and I agree with you up to a point. But the trouble is, if you should ever find yourself wrongly accused of a crime, you are going to want and need every bit of legal protection you can lay your hands on.
And there is the Slippery Slope principle to consider. Say we don't try Duncan, since he was essentially caught red-handed. Everybody knows he did it, so we throw him in the slammer or fry his ass. We have saved taxpayers a lot of money, we've spared Shasta from having to testify, he's off the streets for good. But...
What's to stop us now from doing the same thing to people when the evidence is almost, but not quite, so damning? And then next time, the evidence is very strong but not quite as strong as the second time? And so on, till who knows, we may end up in a world where people get locked up or worse on very flimsy evidence, or on the basis of public opinion (the old trial-by-media thing only with actual legal authority.)
If Duncan, who was caught redhanded, or Jack Ruby, who went one better and did the deed on live national TV, are given, at least in theory, "a fair trial by a jury of their peers" and are allowed to argue their case and present their own evidence, it shows, again at least in theory, that you or me, if we're ever unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, or get misidentified, or something lke that, will also get a fair trial and the chance to be exonerated.
The "innocent till proven guilty" is often unpleasant, but think of what might happen if that wasn't the way it worked.
The media is very much working with Duncan in this case, for their own reasons. The court is denying the media access to Shasta testifying, even at a distance, so various news outlets have filed suit to be able to get in there. I saw one editorial that loftily talked about the DP and open society as their reason for asking for access. Like they wouldn't be chomping at the bit to get access to her testifying whether it was DP or not.
And those tapes in an open courtroom. I remember reading about the parents of one of Charles Ng and Leonard Lake's victims turning on the news and seeing part of the video of their daughter that her killer's had filmed of her. They were just a tiny bit surprised and upset that that mess had ended up being broadcast on television.
I want so badly to comment on this but Donnah would permaban me for the comments I've typed and then erased.
All I've got to say is that they need to kill the SOB asap after the end of the trial. Appeals be damned.
Posted by: Gmac at August 8, 2008 09:52 PMWe still have the best judicial system anywhere in the world...
even though I thought China used appropriate punishment when they caned that boy for vandalism.
Posted by: nancy at August 10, 2008 10:24 AMThat was Singapore, and I thought it was appropriate too. Or rather, I thought it was appropriate that they treated the American the same as they would any Singaporan person who'd done the same thing.
Posted by: Starla Darling at August 10, 2008 10:52 AMCaylee's disappearance is simular to that of Pilar Rodreguize who went missing about ten years ago.
However, the father of Pilar did let his little girl go off with the babysitter.
When he came to retrieve her, the babysitter said she didn't know where she was, and when the father reported her missing, the sitter said she had already given the child back to her dad.
At the end of the investigation, the father was cleared, and the sitter confessed her boyfriend had beaten the child to death and taken her away in a garbage bag.
Since no physical evidence was found, nobody was ever charged.
Pilar's is still a cold case.
Posted by: nancy at August 10, 2008 04:09 PM
Starla Dahling said:
"What's to stop us now from doing the same thing to people when the evidence is almost, but not quite, so damning? "
Common sense..
As for being wrongly accused..Why, the entire friggin Congress just did that very thing. I am a bona fide Son of the South, and damn proud of it. I even remember way back when Alabama was popular multi-platinum recording group, having turned away from carpet laying for the last time.
Today, from all accounts of congress, they and Elvis, and me and Hank, Jr., and a whole bunch of other folks like George Washington are guilty of the crime of slavery.
If the trend regarding crime and punishment continues, no one will actually be 'prosecuted' in the future, just whisked away for a fresh re-programming, and in the most severe cases, like
racial bias, a new implant.
Our courts are so 'clogged' according to the news and all, WHY wouldn't a dose of common sense be in order ??
A loose proposition might be as follows:
(please refer to common sense 101 chapter 7 if needed)
We could, once a criminal is arrested, see if the
characteristics of the arrest meet certain 'criteria' before moving the accused into the next protocol (we did this in the unit many times..)
If the criminal had certain damning evidence on their person, without anyway for that evidence to be there, other than complicity on the part of the
accused, etc..
Pretty simple, but you have to believe in reality, in order for it to work.
Once certain 'norms' were met, then the accused was then saved from the awful ordeal of having to try to make stuff up for a trial..thereby saving the taxpayer even more money being spent on mental evals, and all that crap.
By the way,, to be sure..the family of this little girl, Caysee, are NOT Southerners..
A true Southron would not greet the cameras every time they could, in fact they would run them off.
Posted by: csason at August 11, 2008 02:16 PMThe Anthonys kind of remind me a little of the McCanns, the way they have fallen in love with the camera beyond what's necessary. Only they don't have that veneer of "class" the McCanns had.
Posted by: Starla Darling at August 11, 2008 03:25 PMWhat a nightmare, and I understand a little 'publicity' regarding 'finding' her might be in order under different circumstances..but the way people are treating this is a perfect reflection
of the way things are now..
I mean, the girl is hiding what 'happened' and the fuzz know it. She may have even doused the body with gas, and destroyed the remains.
And these grandparents are so disillusioned about
the situation, they still are looking for her to just turn up somewhere, like she was lost at Walmart.
I think Casey Anthony left this child for a few minutes asleep with her windows cracked...or some nonsense, in Florida, in late July ..which is not something you can do around here.
She probably freaked..and now we have her evil ass
sitting down there, waiting for the system to work out in her favor somehow, which gives me a general idea of how remorseful she is...
Assuming she did indeed leave the kid in the car and didn't just outright kill her to get rid of her and not have her style cramped, she'd have been in less trouble if she would have called 911 right away as soon as she came back to her car. Even stupid and totally preventable ccidents have a way of being "forgiven." She is, I guess, trying for a Susan Smith/Diane Downs routine, but has forgotten or never knew that it didn't work for either one of them.
The grandparents do seem deluded (not disillusioned, they will be disillusioned when she turns up dead) You see it all the time though: somebody goes missing all the evidence points to their being dead, but still their relatives want to believe they're wandering around with amnesia or something. It's understandable, but not very helpful.
Yes..and somehow I don't think having a really cool sign, and dragging it around Orlando looking for a dead girl is going to help.